(888) 815-0802Unlocking Value Realization in Enterprise Sales, with Derek Knudsen [Episode 1140]
In this week’s episode, Alastair engages in a dynamic discussion with special guest Derek Knudsen, Chief Delivery Officer at Revenue.io, as they explore the critical concept of value realization in the world of enterprise software. They emphasize the importance of aligning customer needs with product development, highlight the pitfalls of starting with features instead of customer objectives, and underscore the vital role of understanding and delivering on customer outcomes in achieving long-term success in the enterprise software space. This insightful conversation sheds light on how organizations can create meaningful and lasting value for their customers.
Podcast Transcript:
00:00:00:11 – 00:00:29:07
Speaker
Are you hinting to me that it’s time to move off my Netscape browser? That might be the case. That might be the case. Welcome back, everybody, to this week’s Sales Strategy and Enablement podcast. I’m Alastair Woolcock, CSRO here at Revenue.io and I’m thrilled to have with me the special guest today, a friend of mine for the better part of a decade, Derek Knudsen.
00:00:29:07 – 00:00:57:03
Speaker
And Derek has a fabled and magic background being in roles as CTO, CTO, CIO partner. But he’s just one of the smartest, most creative guys I know. Worked at Alteryx, worked at Notarize Credit, our management consulting firm, and the list goes on so highly credentialed. Well, we’ve been fortunate to recruit him over here to Revenue IO as our Chief delivery officer.
00:00:57:05 – 00:01:27:08
Speaker
Derek, how are you? I’m good. I’ll serve. Thanks for having me on your podcast. You know, Derek, one of the biggest things you and I often talk of is value realization, its impact to growth, how we scale companies, what that means and our at a start this week, we always like to start off with some news. I may have a call out to another friend of mine, David Jakobson, distinguished vice President, analyst at Gartner and he wrote something fantastic this week that I saw.
00:01:27:10 – 00:02:01:01
Speaker
I’m just a read his quote. He says, Every client interaction I have regarding the construction of our ROI return on investment calculators are the presentation of our ROI gets an immediate no go stop said we got to talk about value said value discussions require knowledge of challenges, priorities and pain points. Value discussions require empathy, and then an understanding of where to apply differentiated stuff like products and services to drive positive change and outcomes.
00:02:01:07 – 00:02:36:03
Speaker
Value discussions include risk mitigation, change management, implementation guidance, the promise of value realization help host purchase. All of this contributes to the business case construction. Once this is accomplished, then in all caps you can speak to metrics like ROIC, TCO, NPV, and our friends on finance, they have to weigh in on investments. But the business case together, close deals, win customers.
00:02:36:05 – 00:02:59:06
Speaker
So that’s David Yongxin, distinguished vice President, analyst at Gartner. Derek, I know you’re big in this space of value realization, but I’d love to dive into do you think David’s right? B How does value realization impact growth? Oh yeah, I see. As you mentioned, this a space that excites me. Todd I think having been in this industry a long time, you I’ve worked a bunch together.
00:02:59:06 – 00:03:29:18
Speaker
I think what we always goal ourselves on is being able to articulate value back in the same language as the customer. And I think it’s easy to get stuck on metrics and data that has no correlation to customer outcomes. At the end of the day, the customer buys software. A service very is specific outcome. And so if you can’t speak the language of that outcome or understand it, I have empathy towards it and then go yourself in your efforts towards having them achieve those outcomes, then metrics and data doesn’t really matter.
00:03:29:18 – 00:03:46:08
Speaker
I think it’s very easy to create a bunch of metrics. I think many companies suffer from it. During my time on Alteryx, we talked about this a lot when I was CTO. There is people get caught up in it. I generate enough visualizations or reports or charts that something along the way will hit on a key value point for a customer.
00:03:46:10 – 00:04:18:00
Speaker
So it’s, you know, if there are a million darts, the dartboard, hopefully one of those things hits on the value proposition that customers are most interested in, and I think you and I both experience doesn’t work that way. You have to really understand what your customer values, and it’s not just results on a financial piece of paper. It could be positioning or motion position a variety of different leaders around value, but you have to make sure your conscious of and then you can make all the data and analytics and product implementations and feature enablement happen for it’s going against those value propositions.
00:04:18:00 – 00:04:44:08
Speaker
But you got to make sure you connect those two things for sure. So I would love maybe if you could, for the benefit of our audience, I think through an example of this, you mentioned, you know what you did it all tricks there. Like I’d say there is a hugely data centric company, obviously busy lives in the world of analytics, pioneered many of the platform insights more that you know when we think of over whelming there’s an analogy I used to use at Gartner all the time, and I use ice cream as the example.
00:04:44:09 – 00:05:03:15
Speaker
You know, when you give people more choice, it doesn’t necessarily change an outcome. The example with ice cream is if you and I go get an ice cream today, hot, sunny day, we want to do an average ice cream shop. An average ice cream shop today is a dizzying amount of flavors 50 or more I while bubblegum blueberry lobster based ice cream.
00:05:03:17 – 00:05:41:20
Speaker
True flavor from Bar Harbor, Maine, by the way, might be delicious. The reality is over 90% of consumers always default back to chocolate, vanilla and strawberry. So, you know, how do we when we talk value realization, I think often product teams and sales teams and go to market teams? Well, if I just had this if I just said this, if I just said this and it’s this, just have motion that exact separates the the need for 50 ice cream flavors when actually you never even help people connect the dots on why chocolate is still the number one flavor that it’s a great analogy I think it doesn’t matter industry you are but I will say
00:05:41:20 – 00:05:59:14
Speaker
it’s probably most pronounced. And in the software industry I think people get enamored with if I give you more something in what I give you, you’re going to find value. I much to your ice cream analogy, and there’s a lot of studies that are shown that 70% of what software companies build that at zero at a negative value.
00:05:59:16 – 00:06:24:18
Speaker
And I think best in class probably looking at 50%. So I think companies get really excited about more stuff on top of more stuff about making sure the fundamental value proposition of their software and their service is really hitting on all cylinders. And when that’s hitting well, then you can enhance that value. But you got to make the fundamental value proposition that you’re trying to put forth in your product or service is is hitting.
00:06:24:18 – 00:06:44:15
Speaker
And I think at times people would get so enamored. We landed something. I think customers like it. I’m not 100% sure. I don’t know if they’re getting value, but I have personal confidence in its concepts. I’m going to keep adding it, adding on to it until hopefully one day I get to a precipice of value that the customer realizes, and then I can make you realize the outcome I want.
00:06:44:15 – 00:07:08:17
Speaker
And I think that’s a dangerous path for a lot of us software companies to go down because again, 70% of the things you build at zero and get it right. So when we were Alteryx, we did index a lot on product empires and we always felt been if our product core product wasn’t feature specific, it was the overall experience around our, our core products, our flagship designer product being the most important if customers sell the value.
00:07:08:17 – 00:07:28:12
Speaker
And all of that in value came through motorsports specific to the product, then we kind of earned the right to enhance that. But if our NPS was poor, we weren’t really allowed to go add shiny new objects to it. We had to solve the core value proposition of our software. And then once you kind of got to accept a label Net promoter score, then you kind of earn the right to enhance.
00:07:28:13 – 00:07:51:03
Speaker
And I think that’s again, it’s just connecting the work you do to adding value that a customer can intrinsically feel and I think you and I, I’ve talked about this concept, you’ve got a business objective or a general, you know, company objective doesn’t necessarily have to be a business outcome. Know what are my value propositions as a company and do my products and I’m trying to give you that will enable you to achieve that outcome.
00:07:51:08 – 00:08:12:09
Speaker
How do I connect bound language? And then as you click into the product side of things, you go over and while general value propositions that are probably your cross company cross products, it could be a use case or use a scenario that goes across my platform. How do I know enable with that specifically what their specific capabilities? And then kind of at the root, how do I create those product capabilities with features?
00:08:12:12 – 00:08:30:08
Speaker
And I think that there’s kind of a stacking or a cascading of value, but there are things you put in your products fundamentally at That kind of value creation layer has absolutely got to be in support of building your way back up to helping a customer business outcome. And I think at times we we lose focus on that.
00:08:30:10 – 00:08:53:10
Speaker
So that that sounds very akin to a waterfall, but a bidirectional waterfall, right? Problem building down through value realization, creation and then the outcome, but then also building it back up via the metric and the result each way. Am I thinking of that in the right way? This bi directional waterfall you’re describing, which you think of our listeners as how they need to be thinking about this?
00:08:53:10 – 00:09:14:14
Speaker
Very much. So It’s an arena, innocent reinforcing cycle if you think about it. So what? Let’s go through a sales scenario. So and we’ll take on ourselves. You know, we go to a company, we’re about helping customers increase sales. So that’s a business objective. Now we say, you know, one of the value propositions that we offer is around increasing sales personnel efficiency.
00:09:14:19 – 00:09:47:19
Speaker
While that could be measured as kind of, you know, the number of reps exceed your attaining a quota as an example. So how do we even a features perspective or a kind of across product capabilities perspective make that come the Well, if we’re talking to our customers interested in that problem and appreciate that that’s a need, that’s an intrinsic need that business value that I just talked about to say I had to get my reps to be more productive, I’m more efficient, then I would say, Well, do you believe that helping coach your refs and providing kind of continual education is going to make them a better salesperson?
00:09:47:19 – 00:10:13:18
Speaker
Absolutely. Okay. Well, our platform offers that. And so what we kind of take you down that process, we make sure what you’re valuing and we’re positioning line up. And so now we get post deal and then we want to make sure now you’re realizing that value. Now we’re going to go take a look at the analytics associated with each one of those and say, well, hey, we talked about the importance of, you know, coaching in terms of its impact to sales efficiency, helping your quarters exceed growth.
00:10:13:18 – 00:10:33:20
Speaker
Do you still believe that’s the case? Yes, I do. Well, let’s go take a look at how you’re doing. Well, if we take a look at the dashboard associated with coaching, you’re not using some of these fundamental capabilities that we that we seen, well, increase kind of coaching outcomes and will improve what we disagree to which is us with top line aim at numbers you’re trying to achieve.
00:10:33:22 – 00:10:53:10
Speaker
Well interesting well let’s go understand why you’re not using something within our platform and let’s have metrics looking at you know, why are we struggling to get the adoption of some of these features. It could be the features aren’t implemented in an obvious and joy way. It could be we haven’t done proper enablement. It hasn’t been you don’t have proper internal advocacy for this work.
00:10:53:10 – 00:11:11:22
Speaker
Let’s kind of execute on a get well plan so you can realize the increased touching, what you’ll impact your quota attainment by having your recipe more excited, which will impact at the end of the day, what you care about the most, which is creating a business outcome around increasing sales and so you can see how it’s reinforcing each direction.
00:11:12:04 – 00:11:43:16
Speaker
And I think about that. That’s empowering because it crosses the organization too. It’s not just engineering or sales, it’s your customer success, folks, it’s your support folks. You’re all speaking a common value centric language that is akin to what your customer values. And so it just reinforces a cultural connection with customer. That and the one thing I want to point out there that I’m a big fan of the you said quickly, I want to make sure people hear very well the agreement with the customer and each one of those steps.
00:11:43:18 – 00:12:10:13
Speaker
And I know that sounds simplistic, but I will tell you how often people do what we sell on, Hey, you’re going to go Chief X and then there’s never actually agreement on. But but what do you really need to achieve in the business, you know, and how are we actually going to measure the change? How are we going to then from there, ensure we scorecard and understand what is there?
00:12:10:13 – 00:12:32:09
Speaker
And you’re you’re lining up that agreement every single piece. And look, everybody listening in. I know it’s easy to say, well, create a benchmark and compare. Most enterprise companies today struggle to know what they’re doing. They struggle to know how they’re performing on a function. So is great. They have a top line business objective that they themselves don’t actually know what the before and after instance would look like.
00:12:32:11 – 00:12:58:21
Speaker
They know their North Star, but they don’t know the nuance underneath. And I think Derek, what you’re laying out there is yes, is helpful as a vendor, but equally as impactful to the customer and helping them with this recursive model, this bidirectional waterfall model to sequentially move through and know from my objective to my value prop to my value realization to the creation, here’s how each step is actually going.
00:12:58:21 – 00:13:21:11
Speaker
And we agree because the person is realizing the value is probably the individual contributor. The person is probably sold on the proposition was some director or manager. The objective is coming from the executive that few people are ever going to meet, and the creation of all of that is what the vendors actually hopefully providing. And I think, you know, you got to lock in and help the customer see that.
00:13:21:11 – 00:13:44:17
Speaker
And that isn’t an org chart of how I’m going to support your account. Yeah. Spot on, spot on that. By that I think intrinsically is what you have to focus on is that customer connectivity point. And as you know, it can easily get lost in terms of selling features. You know, everybody gets caught up in feature comparisons, whether that be an analyst comparison or what have you, that the more features you mean, the better your idea is.
00:13:44:17 – 00:14:03:18
Speaker
There’s a lot of very simple products out there. I’ll pick on Twitter, not a sophisticated product, but it’s solvent underneath. And it had a market opportunity that was a customer need that wasn’t being satisfied. You know, that’s I think as a as an organization, as revenue IO and as any software or any company in general, why you’d have to continue to anchor on that unmet need.
00:14:03:20 – 00:14:25:00
Speaker
And if you don’t talk about the need versus kind of the what and the minutia around it, you’re going to lose those customers. And so you got a need for every conversation on value. And I think what we’re going to do more and more of is it make sure that that connection becomes super obvious in our product experiences, that anything you see within our product experience is you can correlate back to these value propositions.
00:14:25:00 – 00:14:55:19
Speaker
This value realization experiences you out within our software and our platform. Like if we could do that, that it’s very easy for a customer to realize the value because they can see it, steal it because it ties directly back into the things that we talked about when we first engage with a prospect or a customer related to our platform or a product on our platform, it said there’s I’ve been Cuomo today, but I remember there’s a great quote from Harvard Business Review in an article called Problem with Product Proliferation.
00:14:55:21 – 00:15:31:18
Speaker
And they go on and they say on average, product variety is not correlated with profitability. That’s hugely important in today’s world. They say the bottom line, the more potentially value generating innovations you add to a company’s product portfolio, the more value destroying complexity you are likely to embed in your business. I know you just think about that for a second and go, Look, we live in especially for tech companies, but even non-tech companies, there’s huge pressure right now with generative A.I., like it’s finally hit the world of artificial intelligence.
00:15:31:18 – 00:15:50:17
Speaker
You and I have been around for well over a decade more now, almost, I suppose, a decade and a half. It’s hitting the mainstream like my kids talk about it. People talk about at home, people suddenly go, okay, it’s moved from Hollywood into general use and things like that generated pumped it up even more, Richard, at the like.
00:15:50:19 – 00:16:24:13
Speaker
And every board right now, I don’t care if you’re an automotive company to a manufacturing company, to a tech company, you know, everybody’s going, how do we innovate? What do we do? How do we do more? And any building in a vacuum without the correlation to the appropriate you know what? What is that doing for the customer? What’s the problem is solving for is that really clear and is it clear in terms of the basic structure you’ve laid out all the way through value generation, all you’re doing is adding complexity and doesn’t it cost you money to confuse your go to market team?
00:16:24:15 – 00:16:50:09
Speaker
It’s going to slow your market entrants and and if you’re if you’re a competitor to gets that right you get it wrong you now are going to cost yourself existing revenues you already have I mean agreed I know a comparative analogy your quote is and you and I discussed this, it was a while back now, but I sent you some articles by somebody who’s pretty renowned in the product space, and they quoted something that has been quoted a lot.
00:16:50:09 – 00:17:08:15
Speaker
But today’s day and age around product, you know, it needs a turn from being output focused to being outcome focused. The right kind of piece of what I talked about earlier, where I think a lot of times there’s a lot of products out there who have very rich, at least in terms of the company’s perspective of rich functionality.
00:17:08:20 – 00:17:27:20
Speaker
I’ll pick on Microsoft Word. You know, there’s a huge portion of why Microsoft works all the excess of 90% that the common user will never use, but they still put a lot of like rich capabilities on that platform so you can get overindexed on, Hey, I’m just going to create a bunch of outputs and hopefully one of those outputs creates an outcome.
00:17:28:00 – 00:17:53:11
Speaker
And what each one of those outputs, especially in the software space, it comes at a cost. I had to maintain that. I got it hands down, I got a bug fix that. And so that’s why I think the measurement in terms of where you place your bets is just so critical. And so for us as an organization, it is you’re aware like we are going to be hyper focused on making sure that we place a product that is, is or a value proposition that is at the heart of the value objectives we know our customers want to achieve.
00:17:53:13 – 00:18:12:06
Speaker
And if it’s not, then we should be having a serious conversation on already trying to extend our value proposition. Or is it just a convenience for us to try and create something that we think is just yet something else? I think there’s going to be more balanced conversations around that going forward. Frankly, with kind of the way organizations are thinking about investing these days.
00:18:12:06 – 00:18:28:07
Speaker
Regardless, since money isn’t as free as it used to be, I think you’re going to see a lot more organizations be much more outcome focused going forward because you just can’t throw raw horsepower and resources at those problems anymore. You have to be much more thoughtful on how we approach them. So I have a question for you on that.
00:18:28:07 – 00:18:53:03
Speaker
How is you think of this topic, you think of that flow, you think of the customer and internal. And let’s just I’m going to go back to your old tricks days here as well. And just for context, again, for the listeners at that point in time, we’re talking three years ago was roughly, you know, it was on a tear in the market worth billions is one of the darling Charles on Wall Street’s like it was it was in a highly innovative space relentless pressure.
00:18:53:03 – 00:19:14:23
Speaker
Go, go, go, go, go. How did how did you make this work at the C-suite? How did you get your chief sales officer on board? How did you get like customer success on board? And like there’s there’s multiple elements to making this work. It isn’t just what do we bring to market and how how does that gel eficacia work and what was that experience like?
00:19:15:01 – 00:19:38:21
Speaker
I think for, for us there, I think we had a pretty strong and highly empathetic founder team that between Dean and Libby that were hyper customer focused. As I, Phebe grew up with the company when it was one of the older start up companies. I mean, it was founded in the nineties as kind of a nuance geospatial company.
00:19:38:21 – 00:19:57:06
Speaker
It ended up, you know, 15 years later, to your point, you know, being a darling of Wall Street, you know, valuations out were well in excess of, you know, and $50 billion. Yeah. Was that one public traded tech stock in the world at one point. But a lot of that was based on both Dean and Libby’s, you know, unfaltering view of the customer.
00:19:57:06 – 00:20:27:17
Speaker
And I think the folks they hired in customer facing roles absolutely lived and breathed the customer. And I think that made that customer feeling come alive in in our platform. So we use third party platforms to do customer engagement versus having to go through a variety of funnels to get to the engineering team. We continuous, we heard a ton of customer feedback from our software platform, so we kind of like did support cost by having this amazing Alteryx community that we developed.
00:20:27:17 – 00:20:55:08
Speaker
It was voted number one community in software in multiple years. And so invoice the customer is never lost in our organization. We couldn’t just walk away and separate ourselves and our customer. And so I think because of Dean, maybe in the way that they built the culture and then some of the enablement they did around kind of community supports and in some of our programs around, you know, creating high capable Alteryx power users, we call them Alteryx aces, it was so customer reinforced that it just became a big winner.
00:20:55:09 – 00:21:13:04
Speaker
So I think that’s the easy way to solve that problem. We are blessed with that, I think coming in. That’s why I think I told you the other day are cloud. Yes, I think a designer was in the mid seventies at one point, which is just insane. And that meant we just we are so connected with our customer and the problems they were trying to solve, right?
00:21:13:04 – 00:21:35:11
Speaker
We’re very value centric that we were able to create this amazing software product that customers absolutely love. Not a problem Alteryx faces today is the world as we pass them technically, but their customers are still so in love with this 20 year old piece of software that they can’t move past that. And I think that’s been a bit of the struggle they faced as a reset in trying to get them to move to something new.
00:21:35:11 – 00:21:59:06
Speaker
And you’re so comfortable with somebody and forever. That’s a huge organizational challenge. I think that’s one they they’ve been trying to fight through. Are you hinting to me as time to move off my Netscape browser? And that might be a case. That might be the case, yeah. What? You’re on with space, it might be time to leave. And but again, fortunate in that circumstance, that’s that’s the culture that that we walked into.
00:21:59:11 – 00:22:28:03
Speaker
I know I’ll fast forward to notarize you know it was it was harder to build that and notarize a very complex space notarization sounds pretty straightforward until you get to the space of real estate. That’s a really, really complex, difficult problem domain to understand. So I think my added hearing team, when I’m a CTO there, you know, some of them really struggle to connect to the customer problem, especially on that real estate side, because it’s such a nuanced, specialized space that you can’t live and breathe that it’d feel like that for us.
00:22:28:03 – 00:22:45:17
Speaker
So I made a bit of an impact for us for sure on that side of it, and we had to work hard to get our way out of that specific position. I want to play the counterintuitive piece here as well as you going to great examples of how to go through this and how the free value realization frameworks in companies.
00:22:45:19 – 00:23:04:21
Speaker
What wouldn’t you do or what are the biggest flags? Well, I would never start bottoms up. Like, I think we talked about the value stacking that you have to be able to understand your customer, which is you have to start at the business objectives you’re trying to meet for your customers and the value propositions that you did yourself in your company.
00:23:04:23 – 00:23:25:10
Speaker
Our position now satisfied. I think it’s really dangerous to start at kind of a low level product piece of it and then think you can inverted away to customer value. I think that that’s definitely a problem a lot of software companies can feel if you’re a traditional kind of founder led product led company and you’ve had early success, I think it’s very easy to get caught up in a bit of hubris around.
00:23:25:11 – 00:23:45:14
Speaker
All my ideas are good because I’ve show market momentum and I think that’s okay too, right? But I think once you get into especially the enterprise space, enterprise customers, they very much care that you understand their problems, Right? That’s why you’re in the enterprise space. That’s why you have customer success managers and dedicated account executives like you have to have that connectivity to your customer.
00:23:45:16 – 00:24:11:17
Speaker
You can get away with it to some extent and a kind of SMB space. If you got really great kind of onboarding capabilities, that strategy software and documentation, like you can kind of get away with it. But as you extend yourself into the enterprise software space that comes with that, an expectation that you understand the customer’s problem. So I would say either starting kind of on the low end in terms of taking a more feature related to start is dangerous to think you can just insert customer problems.
00:24:11:17 – 00:24:28:19
Speaker
Again, 70% of what we think are great ideas and solve customer wrongs don’t. And the other thing I think I would I would be cautious of is on the enterprise side of things when you’re moving into that enterprise segment or TAM Yeah. Making sure you are getting the voice of a customer through those kind of customer facing roles.
00:24:28:21 – 00:24:46:10
Speaker
Because in the SMB space you typically don’t get those. A lot of the things you build in the SME space is is based on product ideas. It’s not as much based on on enterprise customer feedback, and those could be much more nuanced and complex. I on all day with you, Derek, as we often do, but I’m fortunate. Dave, our producer, is paying me team.
00:24:46:10 – 00:25:10:15
Speaker
We are out of time for today, but you know this topic of value realization, I’d love to carry on in the future with you as well, which I think how we contextualize this to the sales, to the customers, SAS and all those teams, we’re just scraping the surface here and it has been fantastic, awesome examples. Now we always wrap up with a little bit of trivia any and I’ll like best to attempt to stump you.
00:25:10:16 – 00:25:44:10
Speaker
Usually I don’t others, but this spirit of creating value and changes that we all are experiencing today, generative AI is front and center amongst executives. In fact, it is now said by the World Economic Forum that over half of all employees need reskilling over the next 24 months and helping companies realize the value out of the growth bets that people are going to make in this space is going to be more important than ever because there’s a lot of stuff happening all over the world.
00:25:44:12 – 00:26:19:08
Speaker
So my trivia question for you is this. And it pertains to the amount of people that are already using generative AI. According to a recent study by McKinsey and Company, generative AI is now being used by what percentage of workers? 54%, 64%, 79% who? And so that’s all workers, right? Not just some civic segment. Yeah, I would probably say 50 for betting on the non information worker type folks, but I’m guessing I’m going to be wrong on that.
00:26:19:10 – 00:26:48:20
Speaker
I ugl for once. I’m happy I got to stump somebody. So yes you’re wrong. It’s actually 79% is what McKinsey and Company found. But you’re instinct is right because the part two of that statement is only 22%. Use it regularly for everyday work tasks. And that right there is a lack of value realization when you have a bunch of people that use it once or twice and think it’s going to help.
00:26:49:00 – 00:27:10:04
Speaker
But then you only have regular repeatable usage and it’s very low and you had that big of a delta clearly where now realizing value out of the technology quite yet. Yeah, I think that’s a great, great, great example of that. Derek, thanks so much for joining us today. Love to have you back. Keep up all the awesome work and the stories, the adventures in the world of technology.
00:27:10:05 – 00:27:24:16
Speaker
Thrilled to have you with us here. Of course, the revenue audio for those listening. And please remember to like and subscribe and send in your questions. Our advice we’ll do our best to get them on a future episode. Derek, it’s been a pleasure having you. Thank you so much. Thanks, Alastair.
